Being a Product Manager in different cultures: where soft-skills beat AI – With Alexandra Vera (Carfax)

Summary:

In this episode, I had the chance to discuss with Alexandra Vera about being a Product Manager in different countries and cultures. 

Alexandra Vera is Head of Product at Carfax, and was previously VP of Product at Autotrader Canada.  She has been living and working in Product functions in 4 different countries and 3 different continents. Also, she’s been working in product and with remote and international teams for the past 20 years. As such, she has first-hand experience with what it takes to work through different cultures, and what are the common traits of great product managers.

Alexandra believes that there are still a lot of opportunities for product managers, even in the current job market. There will be plenty of opportunities for those who are adaptable. 

We covered in detail a number of topics, including

• The current tech and product job market, and what is changing for product  people
• Why some tech companies overinvested during COVID, and what will stay after the pandemic-driven digital boom
• How AI will make Product managers’ life easier… 
• Why soft skills are the number 1 trait of great product managers, and why it is going to be even more the case in the future
• How “non traditionally tech” companies will over time become larger product manager employers
• The differences (and commonalities) between product management practices in Barcelona and Canada, 
• And how the future of work will involve product managers and product leaders being more skilled at managing teams through different cultures
• Some practical tips to be successful in a product management interview

You can contact Alexandra through Linkedin, at https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexaveragurdiel/

You can also read the full transcript here:

salva:
 Hello and welcome to a reasonable product. Today we’ve got Alexandra Vera to discuss with us. What it means to be PM in different continents. So Alexandra is currently head of product at Carfax, but very briefly before she was VP product at AutoTrader in Canada. She’s been working in, I would say, three different continents. Latin America and Canada. She is in a great position to tell us the perspective, and her perspective on this different markets and what is different when he are a product person. And that’s why I’m very, very happy having Alexandra here today. Hi, Alexandra.

alexandra:
 Hello, so thank you so much for inviting me today to speak about this topic which I love

salva:
 Now, I thank you very much for coming. I know you love this product.

alexandra:
 by the way.

salva:
 This topic. And again, I couldn’t find anybody better than you on this topic with so many different boundaries and different cultures you’ve been exploring. Before we get to the core of the subject, can you tell us in a couple of sentences who you are and what you’re doing?

alexandra:
 Sure, well, I typically define myself as a problem solver, right? At my core and early my career, I found that I could solve meaningful problems for people and have substantial impact in company, so I’ve been working in product for the last 20 years,

salva:
 You

alexandra:
 and as you mentioned in many countries, actually for I’ve lived in Venezuela, Canada, the US and Spain. And as part of this journey I’ve learned a lot of things. How product is done in different continents, different countries, right? But always helping the companies that I work for to drive the product strategy and their organizational changes that lead them to success or growth. On a personal note, I’m more of two kids. I’ve traveled a lot besides working in many countries. I do not have any fancy hobbies, but I enjoy this simple things in life, like music, that’s in good for the end of the range. So that’s me in a nutshell.

salva:
 know, I’m not going to tell you which one we’ve got in common between travel, dancing, kids and product, but yeah, probably all of them. So many, many things together. Absolutely. Alexandra, how do you start your career? So you told us a little bit already, but you started your career in Venezuela. How did you get into your product?

alexandra:
 Well, no, actually, I started my career in the US. I had the opportunity to study a master in business administration, and I kick off my career working with telecommunications company,

salva:
 Right.

alexandra:
 called Verizon Communications. I worked for them one year, and then I had to move back to my home country. And when I did, of course, I continued telecommunications industry. I joined actually a data center company similar to today Amazon Web Services, very technical, by the way, the product was the Decade Service Convocation Backcap Store Services, right for hosting for various companies.

salva:
 You

alexandra:
 There is where I found. I really had a position that was more a serve as division manager, right? I was managing and to end the hosting business. So I had a little bit of market facing customer support facing. I really managed the whole team that was supporting this hosting service. A product was one of the functions, and there is where I found, oh my god, the product is the core of the company. Whatever we do in product, it has such a high impact to customers, of course, but also to the company to drive growth. And there is where I actually start focusing more on product.

salva:
 know, I just said, I should do this all my life. And this is funny. I’m hearing something similar from many people as big to you.

alexandra:
 That’s right. That’s correct.

salva:
 We’re calling it a slightly different way, but if you think about this now, I was doing product already. Is this something similar?

alexandra:
 You know the product function to be honest is very broad. You have product waste, product marketing, product commercialization, and so many titles, but at the end it’s all about solving a problem, and how you take that solution to market successfully. That’s what really in simple words, product ease.

salva:
 Yeah, you’re right.

alexandra:
 And there are a lot of flavors between. And a lot of its bleeds in functions within product in their organizations. The bigger organizations are, the more it’s plated the function is,

salva:
 Let me ask you a very tough question, then.

alexandra:
 and that’s what makes sometimes defining products are complicated, because it’s split in many functions in a lot of organizations.

salva:
 What is your definition when you explain to your grandmother what is a product manager? How would you explain in planning? What is your product manager? Is or does another very difficult?

alexandra:
 Yeah, but I think it pretty much explained it in simple terms, but to me it is the person that is looking to understand the needs of their customers and the segments of the company serve, right? Once those needs are understood, the product manager essentially works with a lot of people to find a solution, a cap product that’s all that need, and that the customer is able to pay for it, right? That’s what in essence the product manager does.

salva:
 That’s a very nice definition. I heard three parts, basically. You were to understand the needs of the customers. You work with many people to make it live. And then you ensure that actually people want to take it and pay for it. That’s this a very nice short story for less short and less simple job, I guess.

alexandra:
 Does, right? That’s correct. Simple.

salva:
 I know that usually we usually define the work of a product manager as is said in terms there are different. There is a wide spectrum of product management, but there are also many industries. Where would you say that you stand? If you take this matrix, let’s say industries versus type of product management. What is your sweet spot? What is this one thing that you really like to do?

alexandra:
 Yes, that’s a great question. I love to work, let’s call it either in industries or with products,

salva:
 What is this one thing that you really like to do?

alexandra:
 right? That solve a primary need at very relevant need for consumers. I like to work with products that are customer facing. You know, there are some product managers that work with internal applications, right? I ERPs, certain applications that are more to support internal users. I love to be more market facing, right? More in contact with customers directly. Besides that, I have more than 10 years experience working in marketplaces. Actually, two side marketplaces. That industry is very complicated because you have to balance the needs of two customers that sometimes have conflicting priorities or needs, right?

salva:
 What is this one thing that you really like to do? What is this one thing that you really like to do? What is this one thing that you really like to do? What is this one thing that you really like to do? What is this one thing that you really like to do? What is this one thing that you really like to do? What is this one thing that you really like to do? What is this one thing that you really like to do? What is this one thing that you really like to do? What is this one thing that you really like to do? What is this one thing that you really like to do? What is this one thing that you really like to do?

alexandra:
 But I enjoy it. It’s very challenging, but I had a lot of learnings working in that environment and that industry. But in general, a game, any industry that essentially is solving a very relevant problem for consumers and for people.

salva:
 What is this one thing that you really like to do? What you really like to do is you really like to do it. What is this one thing that you really like to do? What is your feeling in general now about the job market?

alexandra:
 Well, I think the job market, yes, certainly the news, Nick, Afree, right? I think the late off has certainly impacted product managers, but also other roles in their organizations. But I think there are still and there will be still a lot of opportunities for product. To be honest, I think this is transitory, right? I don’t have the crystal ball, but I believe that there are a lot of transition where kind of three even by technology, right? Probably also my correct economics events happening, but there will be a lot of opportunity,

salva:
 What is this one thing that you really like to do?

alexandra:
 things like AI, etc. Essentially, there will be just different ways of working, right? Doing some tasks that probably don’t add that much value. And I think things like AI will out-of-made many of those tasks for us and we will be able to concentrate on more understanding,

salva:
 What is this one thing that you really like to do?

alexandra:
 talking to customers, understanding their needs, right? I’m working collaboratively with everyone in their organization. So, surface kits will be very relevant, probably more relevant than ever, because that’s what probably my chains and AI will be able to do, right? Is to manage the goals, is to bring collaboration among people so that we are able to build

salva:
 What is this one thing that you really like to do?

alexandra:
 the rise solution for customers. But other tasks like looking at the data, doing research online, analyzing data, finding patterns in the data, of course, that those things will be automated, but there will be plenty of room for us, right, to add value in other areas and do it better than we do today. I mean, the problem manager is so stretched today that I think we should be

salva:
 What is this one thing that you really like to do?

alexandra:
 thankful if that happens, right? So that we always complain, I’m sure some of that you have heard this before. We always complain, oh my god, I don’t have time, I have to prioritize continuously what we do, what we don’t do, because it’s like we can not cope with everything that we have to do as a PM. So I think that change will be actually beneficial. Of course, we will see AI

salva:
 What is this one thing that you really like to do? What is this one thing that you really like to do?

alexandra:
 being integrating more and more products, right? So the natural of the products will probably change as well, and we need to get used to work with those technologies, but there will be plenty of opportunities. That’s my 4-word looking vision. But we are more announced and announced for sure.

salva:
 What you really like to do is you really like to do it.

alexandra:
 That’s correct. Also, there are other opportunities that come from the fact that if you look at what companies have done the lead off, they are mostly concentrated on tech companies typical Amazon Google digital companies, right? Which were the companies that during COVID, they had to

salva:
 What you really like to do is you really like to do it.

alexandra:
 rush to respond to the increasing demand, right? But that was the demand that was was driven by COVID, right? It was a short-term demand, but we all knew that things could come to normal, right? And that the demand naturally would come down. I think they overestimated the fact that

salva:
 What you really like to do is you really like to do it.

alexandra:
 people was at home and probably doing more purchasing more things online and doing more things online, but with things came back kind of to normal, that demand for online services drop, right? So they overestimated now they are adjusting, right? But there are other industries like healthcare to say retail that came back from COVID now they are really experiencing a peak of consumer demand,

salva:
 What you really like to do is you really like to do it.

alexandra:
 right? Going to the stores, logistics. So there are other industries that now they are looking into transforming their businesses to be more digital. And I believe that these industries will also demanding a lot of product managers, developers, all these talents that probably have been laid off in the more technology companies will be probably absorbed at these new industries

salva:
 What you really like to do is you really like to do it. What you really like to do is you really like to do it.

alexandra:
 that really want to transform their business. That’s correct. That’s correct.

salva:
 What you really like to do is you really like to do it.

alexandra:
 Yeah, I think digital healthcare, especially, has received in the last years a lot of investment from venture capital, etc. Right? I would say that one especially also tech ad is another one. Those two are primary, very interesting, bad. I see a lot of movement around healthcare. You know, there are other industries that are very interesting, one as well. I think a lot of things

salva:
 What you really like to do is you really like to do it. What you really like to do is you really like to do it.

alexandra:
 are going to happen in the auto industry in the future as well. It’s just a matter of years, there is a lot of disruption, there is a belief and I think it will come sooner or later, but in some years we all will be shopping cars online, right? And that is driving a lot of changes. Marketplaces are trying to enable that experience for consumers, but a lot of things that the whole year need to be, a lot of the steps in the year when purchasing

salva:
 What you really like to do is you really like to do it.

alexandra:
 a vehicle happen offline. And bringing those processes to an online world, I involve a lot of things. Like, registering a vehicle that’s done by the government, they are not really capable of doing this online, signing the contracts, many things, and also the trust, building the trust, right? To purchase a vehicle which is a high price ticket, probably the lowest after your home, right?

salva:
 What you really like to do is you really like to do it.

alexandra:
 So you want to ensure that that vehicle is in good shape, good condition, etc. And that trust, building that trust online is something that, well, all those that are going to the year-old retailing will have to overconfine the right way to may users comfortable about making that decision online, right? So I’ve been working with auto trader and now with carfax

salva:
 What you really like to do is you really like to do it.

alexandra:
 on many things, right? Improving the experience of users in the marketplace to purchase vehicles, right? In the standard way today, which is essentially marketplace today, are a listing of vehicles, right? So of course, in reaching the experience with better information, is your search, etc. So they are able to connect easily with the users.

salva:
 What you really like to do is you really like to do it.

alexandra:
 Carfax, specifically focuses on enriching that experience through the eight-end sites to consumers. It’s going to become a very relevant point in a digital experience when purchasing a vehicle, because those insights include the history of the vehicle, right? That this vehicle has a long

salva:
 What you really like to do is you really like to do it.

alexandra:
 has been installing or not, right? So it brings safety to that experience. So it’s very relevant in the process of improving the trust throughout the year-old.

salva:
 What is the role of a product manager all this because I’m hearing. What you really like to do is you really like to do it.

alexandra:
 Well, it’s not easy, right? But is it about applying common sense, right? The users need information. The brand also plays an important role in the case of auto trader that is a brand that has more than 20 years in the market. So sometimes actually people rely on some marketplaces, the brand of some marketplaces that has been for many years, and they trust those brands even more than the dealers brands, right? So the marketplaces are in a very good position to keep building

salva:
 You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 that trust throughout the experience. You know, addressing complaints when users bring those complaints, providing good reach to dealers many ways of reaching out to dealers. So sometimes we have to enable some users, fine, okay, reaching out to dealers through email.

salva:
 You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 Sort of then need funds, some of them prefer chat, right? So essentially it’s about enabling in the year-old those things or elements that would maybe use some more confidence. Information is one piece, the channel of communications that you enable so that they can reach out to dealers in the best possible way or throughout the channel that they trust the most.

salva:
 You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 Plus of course a building a brand that projects trust. And many other things that I mean kind of means, but it’s about that. It’s about putting yourself in the issues of the user, right? And think, okay, I need to purchase a vehicle, right? What are the things? And condition for example, is it’s very relevant, which is about trusting that the vehicle is the right one,

salva:
 You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 right? And marketplaces and that is part of the things that happen offline and marketplaces are available in the COVID-19 things like, hey, you can book an appointment to do test drive. dealers, dealers are also cooperating. They are implementing programs to ensure to give test drive free test drive, take the cars to the people home.

salva:
 You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 Also giving warranty is for the first 30 months so you can try, but you can return the vehicle to change it for another one. So I think things are happening, dealers want to build that trust, right? Also marketplaces, but it’s just a matter of time to actually bring all those elements online.

salva:
 You really like to do it. You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 yeah. I think yes, I think Prado is not really exercise and implement it the same way to they across all the countries and cities worldwide, right? But there is a reason for that. And it has to do, what I have found, I mean, I’ve worried so many places and I will be so interested into this. I really reflect about the behavioral. And what I notice is that how you practice Prado changes for many reasons, but there is one which is the culture of that country.

salva:
 You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 There are countries that they foster some values more than others. And the Prado Management and Development Practices now they requires two foster some specific behaviors and values, right? I’m sure that all of you have heard about having self-managed teams, right?

salva:
 You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 Being okay and tolerant to uncertainty and we will be because we are not going to have the information always. We collaborate with other teams, right? Sharing information across all those departments that are part of building the solution that are part of the success of the Prado. Hey, this is important. It’s changing formation, top down and bottom up, right? So these are the dynamics

salva:
 You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 and behaviors that let’s say there are cultures that foster these behaviors more than others. And that’s actually what have probably driven differences. There are other differences outside of these behaviors, right? Which is also well what governments do. How much

salva:
 You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 investment they do on innovation, et cetera? Everything that they do to bring the whole ecosystem to support innovation. So you have examples of for example Barcelona, right? The half created the government has created an ecosystem. There are silicon values. Of course,

salva:
 You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 it happened back on the 70s. So there are things outside of companies that are facts, right? But I would say the most critical one is the country culture, right? It doesn’t mean that because you are in a specific country that probably are not as collaborative, right? Or there

salva:
 You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 are more layers, right? And more respect between, you know, a second of teams versus non-insicative team, et cetera. It doesn’t mean that they can not be innovative and do Prado management, productivity, development the same way that people in Silicon Valley know. We all can drive changes, right? Regardless of that. And you can see tons of examples in all

salva:
 You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 the countries of innovative companies. And I think the role of strong leaders there is critical. So those seals of founders, right? They have learned many things actually outside of their countries or in their countries, right? They can drive those changes within the company to me. The companies like a small country, right? So they can drive changes in the company, right?

salva:
 You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 Regardless of what is the general country culture.

salva:
 You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 That’s right. That’s correct. I mean, and that’s the role of this strong leader on their standing

salva:
 You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 those barriers, right? And overcome mean those various cultural barriers, organizational barriers, right? Being empathic, understanding who they are working with, and driving the changes in the organization.

salva:
 You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 No, it doesn’t. It doesn’t, definitely. Actually, I’ve seen companies that have big groups. They want to have people, they trust. And usually they appoint the CEO coming from the headquarter country, right? And I’ve seen that friction, culture, conflict, right? So it’s critical. I mean, culture plays a huge role in how we do produce,

salva:
 You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 how we structure, produ, how we communicate with customers. As simple as that, even to do customer discovery in, I don’t know, Spain, maybe a lot. Different is a lot different than in Brazil or in Canada, right? So there is a code implicit that comes with the culture.

salva:
 You really like to do it. You really like to do it. You really like to do it. You really like to do it. You really like to do it. You really like to do it. You really like to do it. You really like to do it. You really like to do it. You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 If you want to drive a produ-driven organization and being innovative and have the best

salva:
 You really like to do it. You really like to do it. You really like to do it. You really like to do it. You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 product management practices in your organization, you just have to be aware of those differences and drive the change effectively.

salva:
 You really like to do it. You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 Yes, I think in Barcelona, I experienced a lot of creativity, good communication, humbleness, a movement happening around small startups, right? Working collaborate, in between them and also creating an ecosystem has been built there in Barcelona, supported by the government there, right? So I think produ managers there, I would say,

salva:
 You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 are probably they had that Barcelona vibe similar to Silicon Valley vibe, right? So they are very relaxed, they take the time to explore different options to collaborate between them. A lot of looking at the customer, their journey and a lot of focus on customer discovery in general.

salva:
 You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 I think they are doing that well. Then when it comes to Canada, wow, in Canada, I have noticed they are doing well is organizing the teams, right? Prioritizing. I would say, well, of course,

salva:
 You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 I lived my experience in Barcelona and did like five years ago, probably nowadays they are teams where very empowered in the sense that they had a mission, okay, ours, etc, right? They prioritized among all their backlog, right? But they didn’t have a site about prioritization

salva:
 You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 across all teams didn’t happen, right? So they had a lot of freedom, they had their resources, etc, right? But sometimes what could happen is that teams, you could have a team with resources, right, a mission, okay, ours, yeah, but there may be prioritizing things that for them was critical,

salva:
 You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 but probably less critical than another team, or less critical than for their organization, that something that was number five in another team. So resources were not, were not using the best possible way to prioritize whatever had the most impact for the company at all times. So here in Canada, I experienced a change in that, right? Where we try doing this a little

salva:
 You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 different, and we start having a view of everything that all the teams were prioritizing and really challenging in prioritization looking at the impact at the company level. So somehow you may feel that is more centralized, right? They don’t have the freedom, but to be honest, it brings more

salva:
 You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 that we are doing, we are working and whatever have the most impact to the organization. Still, you have teams, still you have okay, are still they have missions, right? But that prioritization process, at least for the major things, having accross all the teams all together.

salva:
 You really like to do it. You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 That’s correct, that’s correct. A more transparency about what’s going on in the

salva:
 You really like to do it. You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 future. Definitely. Yes. Now, there’s a lot of companies have developers in India, or actually after COVID, everyone started hiding and removing teams everywhere and sometimes in different cities in the same country, but sometimes even in different countries. Definitely. And there is where, I mean, the future is going to demand more and more softest kills to product managers and product leaders, because before they used to work with people that was from the same culture, right? They were locally the same place. Now, you have to manage teams that are remote, which is, by the way, is complicated, just the fact that, you know,

salva:
 You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 different cultures. Therefore, you have to have very good softest kills to manage those different. I don’t speak to say with that Canadian, as I speak with an Indian. I mean, I know, well, actually, I have also noticed similarity between countries. I get a lot with Indians very but they are similar to the Latin American culture, right? And I leveraged them that, right?

salva:
 You really like to do it. You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 I leveraged them that and then I find, okay, what is it that Canadians like? How do I how do I create that link that more emotional link as a manager to someone in Canada, or to someone from China? Well, actually here, Canada is one of them, I would say, well, especially Toronto, one of the most multicultural places. 50% of the population in Toronto was formed outside of Canada. 50% so one out of two people have been born somewhere else, right? So, within the product and development teams, most of the people can’t find the China, I mean, a lot of

salva:
 You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 immigrants. So, I have to adjust my management style when working with India, the Chinese, there is of course a standard nowadays in all the companies everywhere, there is a standard, right? Weight of working, when it comes to PM practices, everyone has access information and tools about product management practices everywhere and they are very self-standard, right?

salva:
 You really like to do it. You really like to do it. You really like to do it. You really like to do it. You really like to do it. You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 But, but there is an emotional aspect of doing product and managing people that you have to pair if you find those emotional, those motivators in every person, so you can actually leverage them throughout the communications as well.

salva:
 You really like to do it. You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 That’s correct, that’s correct. And remember, I would say 30% of the product manager work, 30%

salva:
 You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 it depends on your position in their organization, right? But I would say at least 30% is about

salva:
 You really like to do it. You really like to do it. You really like to do it. You really like to do it. You really like to do it. You really like to do it. You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 stakeholder management and talking to customers. Stayholder management is not about how you manage people, right? How you communicate with them, so this critic, how soft his skills are critical.

salva:
 You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 Wow, you have a very interesting question and complex, right? Salvo, I think it’s about, I learned this over many years, my first team, I was 26 years old or so when I had my first team and I had a lot of learnings but I think it’s about building trust, mainly, right? And showing that you care for that person. I don’t know if it’s an interviewer, but people can sense when you care about their work and about their professional development. If it’s a customer that you really care about their problem and if it’s somebody else in another

salva:
 You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 department, that you really care about their challenges as well, right? Because at the end, we we are in the organization, people speak out and sometimes friction with stakeholders, etc. It’s usually happened because they have a view or a lens to think that probably we don’t see, right? And it’s about communicating, being humble, try to show that you really want to take into account

salva:
 You really like to do it. You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 the challenges that they face, right? And try to communicating that honest and humble way, listen, right? And after you have done that, then you can bring the data and the objective arguments to the organization, but you have to be also this is very important, you have to be a rapport and that trust is built over time. It’s spend time on one on one’s with, this is my first advice for all the product managers. It’s spend time, identify those key, key essay holders and spend time at the beginning when you just join the organization to build that rapport that will save you tons of time later on.

salva:
 You really like to do it. You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 That’s right, and hey be humble and when you are not right, sometimes you are over looking something and they say holder brings, a point that is very valuable, right?

salva:
 You really like to do it. You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 That’s right, that’s why I combine the terminology, the term, key essay holder with people management as well. It’s all about working with people, right? It’s working with people sometimes peers, sometimes they’re both, sometimes or the second team and sometimes is your direct team or indirect team in the case of ideal teams, right? They are old people, we should have something in common, which is a common goal, right? And that’s what she helps us to come to an agreement,

salva:
 You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 always looking okay, what is it that we all want to solve for? And then in the year and until we get there, a lot of conversations, but building rapport, listening, being humble, is going to help to facilitate that process and come to the agreement sooner than later.

salva:
 You really like to do it. You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 So one that is going to start their career in protomennagement. Wow. Well, if you are looking for opposition or a role in protomennagement, be confident on your skills and your strengths, reflect on what are those strengths, right? And make sure that whenever you have the conversation

salva:
 You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 with during the interview process with the hiding managers, etc, be yourself be confident. And just have a very candid conversation with them, leave the conversation, usually the product managers, well, everyone, when we go to an interview process, we let the other one leave the conversation, we let the other ones leave the conversation.

salva:
 You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 I think you will show yourself more proactive. If you know what the company, if you do the research, you know what the company does, and you try to speak their language. Try to bring examples of what they are doing, how you can help them. This will make you very successful in the conversations, try to, don’t just display who you are

salva:
 You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 on everything you have done in all the organizations, but try to explain how you can contribute with them, ask them what challenges they want to solve, and try to respond from your experience. Based on your experience and everything you have done in the past, how you are the best person, suitable to solve that challenge that they have. So just look at them as a customer,

salva:
 You really like to do it. You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 understanding the problem that they have, right? Why they are looking for someone, and then try to speak about the potential solutions that you can bring for that problem. So look at the company that you want to work for and the hiding manager and the team there, as customers who have a need, and you are the right solution for them.

salva:
 You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 That’s correct. That’s correct.

salva:
 You really like to do it.

alexandra:
 Oh, no, thank you, Salva. I enjoy this time. Tadying about different PM topics.